Hyper-Tsnius, Revisited

Hyper-Tsnius, Revisited

“Of course, tsnius is the most important mitzvah of all for women.”


We had been having a really lovely conversation up until that point, and then the Chassidic matriarch started sharing her thoughts on my controversial article Hyper-Tsnius? and dropped that Middle-Ages bombshell on me.

And for days, I was fuming about it.

What was she TALKING about?

My teacher, Rabbanit Yemima inspires 10s of 1000s of women every week with her brilliant classes, and Rabbanit Kanyevsky zt”l helped 10s of 1000s of people with her non-stop chesed, and my mom has spent 10s of 1000s of hours healing and helping patients as an idealistic psychiatrist, but NONE of these good deeds, apparently, are as valued in God’s eyes as 70-denier black tights and wrist-length sleeves and just being as silent and submissive and hidden as possible, like Sara Imenu hidden away in her wooden box from Pharoah.

And then last night I read something very beautiful in Rav Pinkus’ wonderful, newly-translated book Nefesh Chaya: The Unique Avodas Hashem of the Jewish Women (Feldheim) that gave me some insight into what my friend, the Chassidic matriarch, might have had in mind….

Rav Pinkus explains:

“The Maharal writes that the main source of a woman’s greatness in the upper worlds is her modesty.

We are accustomed to think that modesty is only a matter of how a person dresses.

But modesty in its proper sense refers rather to doing things for the sake of Heaven alone…

…the process of a woman’s spiritual growth consists of just one thing: to be for Hashem alone.”

Clearly, modesty in dress and action were also of supreme importance to Rabbi Pinkus, but true tsniut, he explains, isn’t about being silent and submissive and hidden, like Sara Imenu in her wooden box.

And true tsniut isn’t only about the 70-denier tights and wrist-length sleeves either.

Rabbi Pinkus explains that the most tsanua woman in the world, and therefore the greatest woman in the world, is the one who lives her life with unwavering, razor-sharp focus on her ultimate goal: to serve Hashem.

What do YOU think is the best definition of tsniut? What explanations of tsniut have inspired you?

Image courtesy of Flickr.com user Andrea


  1. When people say that tznius is the most important mitzvah in the world, they are ALWAYS talking about the stockings, etc. The kind of tzniyut that you are talking about applies to men too, and the statements are never directed at them.

    • Sorry, who is “they”? Maybe the burka ladies, maybe. But there are plenty of wonderful thoughtful caring responsible people, women & men, who are talking about general attitudes and behaviors. No, they are NOT always talking only about stockings. Later this evening I will try to write up a beautiful story I once heard from the senior Rebbetzin Ritchel Kotler of Lakewood. But all this does not detract from the importance of simultaneously adhering to the halachas of a dress code, as determined by halacha, and not by some overcompensating-for-guilt-or-traumas misguided women….

  2. for me tzinus is knowing your self worth and doing your best not to waste your gift by denying what you know to be good at – out of “modesty”. a woman has to appreciate her streghts and use them to serve Hashem. no excuses like “I’m not good enough”

  3. Obviously there are some people that think of Tznius only in terms of black and white and the way one dresses. This is not all people.
    I am not one of those people.
    I believe tznius to be the most important mitzvah and I am not talking about clothing. Once true tznius is adhered to, clothing is secondary.
    This article is great because it puts to the forefront the type of tznius which I was taught. Modesty is about being an eved of Hashem. That means that what other people think doesn’t matter, what the world thinks doesn’t matter, there is no such thing as “showing off”. The only thing in ones mind is to do the right thing and try to connect to Hashem in this world.
    The reason that women are specifically harped on for this mitzvah, is because we are the most G-d like creatures in this world. We have the ability to create life. Hashem is very hidden in this world. We as well should be “hidden”. This does not mean to be submissive and hide in a dark cloak or a dark room.
    We are like the aron kodesh in the beit hamikdash. No one could look inside because it’s greatness was too powerful. It was too close to G-d for the normal person to be able to handle. When I was taught my kallah classes, this was the most beautiful thing I learned. When a man and wife come together to bring the Shechina in to this world, that is when the should the women be uncovered. It is like uncovering the aron kodesh.

    I have noticed in my own life. The more I work on being tzanua in mindset, the more tzanua I become in dress.

    • thank you. this post is beautiful. if more people thought like you, these discussions would be much less volatile. tznius is a beautiful mitzvah, like all the others. spreading correct Torah based information is the best way to promote true tznius in all of us.thank you for sharing.

  4. I think constant discussion of tniut is– not very tzniut! There are so many mitzvot to think about and improve…the insane focus on a female and how she looks strikes me as somewhat immodest.

  5. The “specialness” (hate that word) of the Jewish People is their purity – based on taharas hamishpachah and adherence to the laws of morality. We know the children born belong to that mother and father, only. In many other societies this is not a given!

    Therefore that morality, like taharas hamishpachah itself, is mostly (though not only) in the control of the women.

    Hashem knew what He was doing when He gave it to them.

    We see clearly (and tragically) that in societies where the women drop the old-fashioned laws of tznius, or start cutting corners — the skirts get shorter and tighter, necklines loosen, etc. — slowly but surely, the morality starts to go also. Suddenly in those societies there is the kind of tragic, family-destroying misbehavior that used to be associated only with Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton types.

    Therefore the laws of tznius that some are finding silly or annoying actually control the existence of the Jewish People.

    Sign me,
    I Wish It Weren’t True

  6. I disagree …i think its a topic that we all need to evaluate and put into perspectivefor ourselves on a daily basis…the yetzer hara waits for us in stores when we try to find a cute outfit that we need to “make” tzanua because the people in the design world don’t really care for modesty or a woman’s dignity for that matter….so i can speak in all honesty when

  7. I found that in my own journey towards modesty, it wasn’t until I formed a PERSONAL CONNECTION TO HASHEM that I actually started covering my hair and exploring the halachot and various nuances of modest dressing. I came to dress modestly out of yirat shamayim: not simply because the world should know I’m married, or even for my husband’s sake (although now that I do all this, I do it also for his sake, since now I understand why it is so important).

    The dress has affected my behaviour immensely, too. Seeing how I look in the mirror encourages me to behave the way I look, to walk the walk, so to speak, even though sometimes I still feel like the same girl inside: when I catch a glimpse of myself in a shop window, I’m reminded of who I’ve become and am determined to behave appropriately and in Kiddush Hashem. My speech has changed, as has my behaviour on the street (meaning that i am careful how I bend over, or that I no longer eat something more than a small bite while walking, I am careful to turn away from pedestrians when I need to take a drink of water…etc.) Noone told me to do any of this. It was a natural progression. I simply felt why should I go to all the trouble of dressing like this if it isn’t going to affect me as a person in a positive way? I don’t feel as if I’m hiding, or ashamed: the exact opposite: I’m quite proud of the person I have become. I feel honored to have been given the chance to be this way. I really feel that I have become more refined as a result, and I’m happy for it. In addition, I behave differently inside my home as well, since my hair is permanently covered, I’m in constant awareness of Hashem’s presence (I hope, I try!)

    I truly believe that as long as a woman is not modest out of reverence and in deference to Hashem as her starting point, then she might never really come to understand why she should bother at all. I agree with all the modern thinking in principle: why do it for the men? why do it for others? why be symoblic? why us? why not them???!!!! why should I??!! Those were all my questions, once, and many more….

    When it’s connected to Hashem, it all takes on a different flavour. For me, anyway. Maybe I was too much of a rebel to do it for the sake of community, tradition or meaningful symbolism.

    p.s: FYI, I live on the brink of Mea Shearim, and I’ve NEVER seen a denier for sale higher than 70, which is what I wear (and long sleeves, too: did I hear someone say “Yuk”?). So if 200 exists, it isn’t on the common market, and it isn’t required halachically either. 70 will do just fine, and speaking as a former fashionista: it doesn’t look so bad either!!!

    • You hit the nail on the head! Yesher Koach.

    • I’m glad you’ve found your way to connect to Hashem through your standards of tsniut but certainly you must realize that it’s not one-size-fits-all. And it’s not about levels, either. The idea that some people’s definition of tsniut means turning away from people to take a sip of water…makes me cringe and would honestly drive me away from frumkeit if that were considered the norm everywhere. Baruch Hashem for inclusive Yiddishkeit.

      • I really understand you, I used to feel the same way. Just a correction: I didn’t connect to Hashem through my tzniut: it was because I connected to Hashem first, that I became modest at all.

        Through that connection, I am somehow driven to keep exploring other ways I can enhance my personal modesty. Everyone knows their own limits, and I certainly have mine, too. But I’m all for growth, and so my connection to Hashem helps me.

    • thanks yehudis, I’m not so up on the whole denier issue. I just googled how thick a totally opaque stocking needs to be, and came up with 200 denier. thanks for setting me straight…

      • Silly me! I went to geula instead of google…. 🙂

        • confirmed your findings yesterday on a research mission/shopping trip to bazaar strauss…will correct the article, thanks yehudit!!!

  8. I say that its an ongoing battle for me when i have to chose or give up on something that’s too tight or too short even though it is flattering and so cute ….i have 2 girls that adore me (they’re still young 7 and 5- ) …i have to set boundaries and an example because before i know it they’ll be the ones picking their clothes at the store and the yetzer hara waits there and they don’t have the same sense of responsibility that i do as a mother….the only reason they would have to resist something lacking the standards they grew up watching is just that…what they know from home…. i sympathize with the cloke wearing woman because they are so petrified of looking even semiattractive in this crazy pedophile surrounding unbalanced media run world that they want to live in a bubble …other people do this too by isolating themselves from any type of outside news/media …but what’s ironic is that they were meant to be unnoticed

  9. Anonymous Mom

    Hard topic.
    I am a woman who treasures the mitzvah
    Of tzniut. I love my sleeves, my stockings,
    my covered hair, my hemline and definitely
    feel closeness with the King because
    of and through my dress.
    My reaction to the visibility question is more
    complicated. As I write I realize that the issue
    is the point of origin of the restrictions.
    I do not feel comfortable sitting in a downtown
    eatery, power walking around a nearby lake
    (as opposed to “strolling” or even just
    walking briskly.) I will not walk into a store
    packed with men and I do cringe if a worn
    heel announces my progress along the street.
    These are not however prohibitions posted
    on a local Takanos sheet. They are expressions
    of internal borders. I do not think I would want
    a local authority forbidding any particular
    garments or behavior. While I understand that
    closed communities might and often do
    require specific stringencies, there is an element
    of consensus in those cases.
    So the internal/external axis is key I think. The
    ad in Binah as I understand it was not telling
    women what to do. It was written by a mother
    seeking mercy for her son and making suggestions
    for “upgrades” based on the norms of the
    Chassidishe community she is part of. Those
    norms are not the standards of every reader.
    Sara Yoheved Rigler talks about a conversation
    she had with a woman struggling with the
    standards in her community: hemlines, sheitel
    legnth etc. When she (SYR) asked the woman where
    was H’ in this picture, the woman was puzzled.
    What did H’ have to do with it? There was a
    short circuit there-Beyond her resentment
    to external imposition of rules she didn’t like
    and her not feeling particularly sensitive
    to the nuances of the issue, H’ and His will were not
    In the picture at all.
    I surprised that I actually have more to say
    but “enough already” . Thanks for getting
    me to deepen my thinking about this and
    sorry for posting before getting it crystal clear.

  10. as girls growing up in the “liberated” sixties and seventies, we were told that a woman was capable of becoming anything she wanted to be: an astronaut, a doctor, an engineer, etc. we were told that men and women were equally smart and should be equals in school and the workplace.

    at the same time, the skirts got really short, social interactions encouraged “free love”, and the media was full of barely-dressed women. so, even tho we were told that a woman should be judged by the quality of her mind, our society was focusing almost exclusively on their physical attributes.

    as a young non-observant teen, i started insisting on dressing more modestly than my peers because i wanted to be taken seriously–to be valued for the content of my mind, not my bra size. so, from my own personal experiences, i do see a direct connection between dressing and acting in a modest way and how one is received/perceived by others.

    as a baalat teshuva, i have been puzzled by the existence of immodest dress and behavior in the frum world. the obvious connection between modesty and increased human value is all over the Torah, beginning with our holy ancestors. if it worked for them, who are we to think that joining society’s downward spiral of immorality would benefit us? being lucky enough to live a life based on Torah, i can’t claim ignorance on this score.

  11. i think what is ironic and frustrating about most discussions of tznius is that while tznius is supposed to be about highlighting the internal, as opposed to the external, the whole focus seems to be on the externals! tznius is about saying “there’s more to me than meets the eye.” it’s not about looking frumpy, shlumpy and dumpy. it is a mitzvah to be a kiddush H and look attractive and refined.

  12. Thanks. I’ll let other women do the talking for me. Rebbetzin Tzipporah Heller has wonderful shiurim on tzniut and Gila Manolson’s “Outside Inside” is an excellent presentation of the subject. Really worth listening / reading to get a deeper understanding of tzniut as something far more meaningful than a dress code.

    • Mrs Ivy Kalazan also does beautiful presentations on the deeper essence of Tznius. Very special.

      • do you have a link to her classes if they are available online?

      • She was my teacher in Neve! I haven’t heard her name mentioned in a long time! I didn’t realize that she’s famous now:)
        (she may be on TorahAnytime.com)

  13. Tsniut is essentially about inner beauty and carrying oneself like a princess or a queen. At least, that is what we have to remember when we hear some ridiculous claim that all the troubles of the Jewish people are because of the sheitel or 15-denier tights.

  14. Men and women have different roles on this earth in order to properly serve Hashem. For women, part of that role is her tznius which although ppl refuse to ackowledge, does indeed reflect your neshama for if a woman wholeheartedly serves Hashem with love and knows that He loves her and has therefore given her the “mission” (I will not say job bec deracheha darchai noam”) of being tzanua then she will realize her outward modesty is indeed as important as her inner modesty and it is a special mitzva for women. Gotta run to class now.. I want to write more….!

  15. The reason I’m so turned off of tznius is because when it’s taught in school, it’s always taught with a focus of covering up. As much as people say, “tznius it not only about how you dress,” when it comes down to specifics of tznius, the only clear halachic parameters are about dress. So that’s what people learn and teach. So we keep getting beat on the head about necklines, skirt hems and disregard myriad other important mitzvos. Also, I resent when Rabbis (aka men) talk and give mussar about tznius. Unless the rav is truly a gadol, he usually does not have the high level of sensitivity and regard for women to speak about this in a way that I want to listen to what he says. And because men are the vocal leaders in the Jewish community, not women, we’re often hearing about tznius from men. And I personally dislike that very much.
    I am more comfortable dressing tzniusly and uncomfortable with “attracting” clothing, yet I also struggle with finding my voice and being a leader (you can also call this low self-esteem.) All this focus on tznius puts a damper on my efforts to be more myself in deed and action.

  16. i do think that Hashem values modesty just as much as the acts of chessed. I think most women get turned off by the topic of modesty because they themselves don’t truly believe that it’s such an exalted middah.It’s definitely easier to value chessed than to value tzniut. But, when we learn about it and when we connect with Hashem through this avenue then the minute details do become important.

    I also think Rav Pincus put it beautifully that a true tznua is to be for Hashem alone, so practically we need to work on that relationship to Hashem through those different avenues, whether clothing, acting, talking, role modeling, etc.

    it’s so ironic that the tznius posts get the most comments!

  17. This quote by Rav Shalom Arush suggests that character development is ultimately more important than ritual observances or technical rules. But maybe tsniut is in between a man-and-god and man-and-man mitzvah? In any event, this is support for the idea that how one dresses is not *the* most important mitzvah.

    “As a rabbi, and particularly as a rabbi that tries to help people as much as possible, I’ve noticed a peculiar phenomenon when people make tshuva, they run to the man-and-G-d mitzvas Shabbat, kashrut, mikva, Torah learning, but they often neglect the real tshuva, adam l’chavero — man & fellow man. Why do we call that the real tshuva? The answer is that we come to this world to perfect our character to be less brutal, less arrogant, more kind and and more considerate. The way a person observes the commandments that govern one’s
    relations between man & fellow man is a barometer to the quality of his or her character. For example, you can’t be a tzaddik — even if you know the Gemara by heart — if you cheat someone or don’t repay a debt.”


    • He is also extremely adamant about modesty (witness the women of his own community) and men guarding their eyes. One certainly doesn’t come at the cost of the other.

      • Point taken! See also this wonderful quote from R’ Eliezer Berland, speaking against the practice of some women of a wearing a Burka-type shawl:

        “When a woman works on her holiness she does not put on a shawl. The shawl is meaningless. A woman who does not daven shacharis mincha or maariv wants to be considered a tzaddika so she puts on a shawl. Then another woman who davens shacharis mincha and maariv every day and sits at the Kotel for 4 hours every day saying tehillim is no longer called a tzadika. There are some women who wear the shawls who can’t even hold a siddur. She puts on a shawl and suddenly she is the leading tzadekkes of the generation???”


        Could the same be said for the less extreme but more common tzniut stringencies?

        • Thanks for posting the link…i value rav brlands opinion and im glad to hear what he really said….

  18. Rachel Aviner

    I actually found Rabbi Pinkus’ sefer Nefesh HaChaya extremely demeaning in which I felt he put down women’s role in Torah. There’s no problem with women having a voice in this world as a process in their Avodat Hashem

  19. I haven’t had chance to read through all the responses, but I very much agree that tzniut is not only about the way you dress. A woman can be covered head to toe and still manage to flaunt her self and act in ways that are not tzanua, whereas a woman can also be dressed in more revealing clothing but comport herself with dignity and modesty. I still think that clothing has a very, very important role – but behavior is an integral part as well.
    I think that many times women are judged as not tznius based on dress alone, and that’s not right. I have friends who wear pants and yet I would still consider them to be very modest people – both based upon their behaviors and outlooks and based upon the fact that they choose their pants wisely to not be form-fitting, revealing, etc. Some people would take one look at them and make an immediate judgment based upon clothing without looking any deeper.
    Tzniut is not an issue that is black and white; the shades of grey are virtually endless. I think that we should try to follow tzniut in all aspects – dress, behavior, relationships with other people, etc.
    I also agree with what someone else said – not to be so ‘modest’ that we undervalue ourselves and what we can, have, and will accomplish.

  20. The thing that bothers me so much about this subject is that an overemphasis on modesty creates exactly the same problem we see in the modern world: over-eroticization of women and society in general.

    Modern society treats women as a sex object. So, in my opinion, does the radical haredi society. Their approaches are opposite but the result is the same: women are not treated as people. This is apparent in modern society from the way the female body is presented in the media and advertising. In haredi society, it is apparent from the approach taken to prevent mixing of the sexes. You want to have a segregated bus? Fine, but why do the women have to sit in the back, including pregnant, sick and old women and women with babies? Photoshopping immodest women out of pictures for a newspaper okay, but modestly dressed women? Publicly defacing posters of women? Refusing to look a woman in the eye when speaking to her? This is not respect for the kedusha of women. This is making a statement that women are “dangerous sources of immodest thoughts” no matter how they are dressed or how modestly they conduct themselves. It is basically saying that tzniut doesn’t even really matter: women are inherently sexual objects and contact should be avoided at all costs except when sexual encounters are permitted. This is a serious problem.

    Kedusha is not the sole responsibility of women!!!! Men must learn to control their thoughts as well! We should be happy to help out by not challenging men with constant temptation, but there must be a red line between our responsibility and theirs! It is, after all, THEIR mitzvah to avoid immodest thoughts!

    Therefore, I think we have to be very careful not to take this mitzvah to the extreme. I agree that it is an important mitzvah for women and it has many beautiful aspects to it, but we MUST keep it in proportion and not let it get out of hand.

    • Yes, my husband shared with me a beautiful Dvar Torah: He heard an explanation on “Al Tarbeh Sicha im Ha’isha” – one should not speak extensively with a woman, which applies to one’s wife and more so the wives of others.

      The explanation was – don’t speak to your wife as an “Isha” – don’t see your gender difference as paramount in any dealings. Treat her first as a person, speak to her as a human being. Don’t speak extensively with her in a way that is focused on her gender – even your own wife. (And this applies to women as well – if your whole focus is their masculinity, the conversation is not tznius, and should only take place in the context of intimate relationships.)

  21. The “modesty” hyper tznius issue is something that unfortunately for the most part has been taken beyond Torah influence and gone into a world that is so close to Christianity and Islam that it’s frightening. And its repercussions are bouncing back on us in the form of women who are so “righteous” that they refuse to sleep with their husbands except on Mikvah night. This is a subject I could discuss for hours on end.

    The bottom line: we are each responsible for our own bodies and our own clothing, our own thoughts, speech and judgements. We are not responsible for others’ bodies or clothing, thoughts, speech or actions.

    Since I had my last baby I started paying more attention to wearing socks and how I dressed because I knew I was being watched publicly and was going to be criticized on every external point. To my own credit, I’ve changed my “level” of modest dress. But that’s my business and no one else’s.

    Kol Tuv,

  22. I am surprised that you write about tsnius versus chesed, as if a comparison could even be made. (And ironically, the women you cite are extremely modest, we should all merit to dress like the Rebetzin Kanievsky zatzal)(and that you reduce tsnius to 70 denier stockings). It reminds me of non-religious Jews who say the most important thing is to be a good person. The “I don’t eat kosher, but I give tsedaka”, as if they can buy Gd off. Well, actually we are supposed to keep all of the Torah, not just the bits that appeal to us. As for chesed and tsnius, chesed is yesod haolam, and needs no justification. The reason tsnius is so important, and particularly for women, and particularly in dress and in this generation, is because (i) the standard of any kind of modesty in women’s dress has so severely deteriorated, to the extent that it has become quite acceptable for women to go to work in professional offices dressed as if their profession is the oldest, and (ii) a woman who leaves the house dressed immodestly may very well be seen by several hundred men in the course of a day, who will come to commit aveirot on her account. This is worse than eating non kosher food. That is an aveira between man and Gd for which tshuva is easy, but it is very hard to do tshuva for immodest dress as it is actually an aveira between man and man (well woman and man). (And before everyone starts jumping on me, I am not talking about men with problems who attack women, for which the man is always responsible regardless of how the woman is dressed. I am talking about attractive, provocatively dressed women who prance down the streets to the admiring stares of a myriad of men. (And believe me I often sit at the back of a mixed bus and see men on the bus oggling women walking in the street. In these situations, the women are indeed responsible for the attention they receive and the effect they have on men.) If these same women are doing chesed, well they are doing mitzvot and aveirot, but that doesn’t cancel out their aveirot. Is giving tsedaka of more value to Hashem than not stealing? Widespread stealing leads to a breakdown of society, as does widespread pritzut.

    I am BT, long time, and I am still mystified by the fact that so many “frum” women dress so horribly immodestly. And I’m not talking about chumrot (stockings and sleeves to wrists), but the tight jersey/lycra tops they wear, leaving no contour to the imagination, with their busts, covered by some kind of clingy material, but basically hanging out, the “cisui rosh and open cleavage”, the high, high heels, (come on everyone knows what that does to ones backside), etc, etc, etc. Most frum women do not achieve basic tsnius. Even the ones wearing stockings, but everything else is also skintight so what did they achieve? And this is why it is the most important mitzva for women today, because it is observed mainly in the breach and it has such far reaching consequences: spilled seed, a man thinking of the bank tellers showcased body parts which was practically impossible for him to avoid seeing, when he is with his wife, and it is a chilul Hashem, when a woman’s dress is crying out, look at me. This is not about stockings but the message a woman is giving off with her dress and body language. (And I’m guessing the almost blanket tsnius failure in the frum world has lead to the burka backlash. I’m not justifying the burka ladies, but just trying to understand their motivation).

    My take is do chesed, be a rocket scientist, go skiing, do whatever it is you want to do with your life, but first and foremost be, dress and act as a kiddush Hashem. The chassidshe lady was right.

  23. I think that tsnius is a beautiful mitzvah- I go to a Beth Rivkah so we get harped on at about our sleeves, long socks, hemlines, etc. but never about our shouting and cheering in the street on Purim and first day of school… In a Lubavitch Gan Izzy Camp, we have to keep tsnius in dress also but somehow you also feel refined and pure…. The mitzvot all have a function, to bring us closer to Hashem but at the same time to make us different to the non Jewish world so we will stay with Hashem.
    I find that if you are dressed tsnius you are dressed to serve Hashem all the time. Take it like any other mitzvah… Do the mitzvah, beautify/extend it in any way you want for yourself (but not so it misses the point) but don’t impose it on other people and certainly not your customs you take upon yourself. I think when we’re children and early teenagers we should be guides and surrounded by good role models but we mustn’t judge other people or their levels of observance because only H’ can do that. And in terms of the yetzer hara waiting in the clothing stores, don’t go in too often because you could help others in the time it takes to find lots of tsnius outfits you like and the money could go to tzedakah or hachnassas orchim or something… And I feel bad buying tsnius clothes if it means that they are unethical cos I feel really awful for the people in sweatshops getting threatened with abuse or assault or rape if they don’t finish the garment fast enough… And I want my clothes to be natural because I believe that if we don’t look after the earth then there will be no world for us to make a Dirah betachtonim and so mashiach can’t come… But Hashem will look after us but all the same… I am rambling and yet I have so much to say but that’s all for today…

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